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The Big Dig: Transmission Line Powers Through Saratoga on 339-Mile Run

Written by Thomas Dimopoulos on . Posted in Featured, News.


Champlain Hudson Power Express Project, terrestrial project route depicting N.Y. municipalities. Photo: Champlain Hudson Power Express. 

SARATOGA COUNTY  The noises you hear emanating from wooded areas across Saratoga County are the building sounds of one of the largest investments in New York state history. 

They call it: Chippy. 

The $6 billion Champlain Hudson Power Express transmission line project ultimately sets two five-inch-diameter cables underwater or underground on a 339-mile run from the U.S.-Canadian border to New York City. 

When completed in 2026, those cables are anticipated to speed 1,250 megawatts of electricity to a new state-of-the-art facility in Queens that will convert clean energy from direct current to alternating current power – delivering reliable clean energy from Hydro-Québec in Canada that will be fed directly into New York City’s power grid, powering more than 1 million homes.  

Construction on CHPE kicked off November 2022 in Whitehall, and will continue into 2026, with work activities taking place in Washington, Saratoga, Schenectady, Albany, Greene, Rockland, and Queens counties. The work includes clearing trees and growth in preparation for project installation, digging trenches, installing conduit to house cables, and performing horizontal directional drilling.

A meeting between CHPE and local officials took place this week and “was very positive and included a detailed construction discussion related to the City of Saratoga,” according to a spokesperson at CHPE on Sept. 26.  

 “Construction continues at a steady pace throughout Saratoga County. Work includes site preparation (clearing trees and brush and creating access roads) Horizontal Directional Drilling (HDD) that is used to go under environmentally sensitive or congested areas, digging the trench where the conduit and cable will be placed, along with cable pulling and splicing. Work will continue through the end of next year.”

Trenching is scheduled to begin this week in Saratoga Springs, according to the company.  

Once completed, the project is expected to reduce harmful emissions by 3.7 million metric tons – the equivalent of removing approximately 44 percent of the cars from New York City streets. Additionally, it is anticipated to provide $3.5 billion in economic benefits to New Yorkers and create approximately 1,400 family-sustaining jobs during construction, with a commitment to use a significant amount of union labor.

Local economies across the state will stand to benefit. Some Washington County municipalities and school districts will receive a combined $181 million in tax revenue over the next 30 years from the project, The Post-Star reported in 2021.  

Plans for an Alternative Clean Power Transmission Project were announced in 2010, with the first public presentations held in Albany that spring. Five years later, Transmission Developers Inc. (TDI) announced that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has issued a Department of the Army permit to allow the Champlain Hudson Power Express project to be placed in waters of the United States along the proposed route. 

Champlain Hudson Power Express (CHPE) project, was developed by Transmission Developers, Inc. (backed by Blackstone) and Hydro-Québec – the latter being the largest renewable energy producer in North America. 

The first 24 miles of submarine cable destined for installation in Lake Champlain arrived from Sweden at the Port of Albany in October 2023. By August 2024 cables were floated across the US-Canadian border and the installation of the marine cables in Lake Champlain and the Hudson River began.

The “terrestrial route” – which may be viewed via an interactive map on CHPE’s website, enters Saratoga County shortly after crossing West River Road via Fort Edward, then traces a southwesterly path through the hamlet of Gansevoort, and proceeds across Ballard Road through Wilton Wildlife Preserve and the Northway near Gavin Park. The line continues just southwest of the Skidmore College campus and Saratoga Hospital, past Church Street and Washington Street in Saratoga Springs and moves to a parallel run alongside Route 50/ Ballston Avenue just south of SPAC. 

The work then continues through the southern portion of Saratoga County before crossing into Schenectady and points beyond. Of the 339 miles, 60% will be in waterways and 40% buried underground. 

“The transformation of a fossil fuel site into a zero-emission facility highlights the world of possibilities we have to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels, mitigate the impact of climate change and accelerate our collective progress of shifting our power grid to go green,” Gov. Hochul said, standing in the shadow of Astoria’s Hell Gate Bridge last September to announce the start of construction on the converter station in Queens. 

The 339-mile route from the north U.S. border to Queens was designed to minimize its impact on the environment, according to CHPE.  Burying the line keeps it out of sight as well as providing protection from extreme weather. The underground cable installation work is ongoing in various stages in all 15 of the project’s construction segments. 

Once it enters service in the spring of 2026, CHPE will be the largest transmission line in the U.S. built entirely underwater and underground, E&E News by Politico reported in 2023. 

Overall, as part of the Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act (CLCPA), New York state has committed to reducing GHG emissions by 40 percent by 2030, and 85 percent by 2050. At the same time, the state has committed to increasing the use of renewable energy to 70 percent of the market share by 2030, and 100 percent by 2040. 

According to CHPE, it will deliver more than 15 percent of remaining generation needed to meet New York state’s 2030 renewable energy targets, and result in carbon emissions reduction equivalent to removing approximately 44 percent of the cars from New York City streets.

Musical Chairs: City Moves to Fill Vacant Council Seat 

Written by Thomas Dimopoulos on . Posted in Featured, News.

SARATOGA SPRINGS —The four sitting members of the City Council took steps toward filling a vacancy for its fifth member during its meeting on Sept. 17 at City Hall. 

The vacancy occurred following the resignation of DPW Commissioner Jason Golub in mid-August. Filling the empty seat with an active member is vital. That person serves both – as the operational head of the Public Works Department, as well as a fifth and potentially tie-break voting member in the legislative body of city government.   

Seeking to follow the precedence set by the city when recently filling a similar vacancy, the council has expressed its desire to in turn: appoint an interim fifth member to temporarily occupy the seat, and secondly hold a city-wide election to charge voters with selecting a replacement through the Dec. 31, 2025 conclusion of the term.  

If possible, the city would like to avoid a scenario where the seat would be filled for a couple of months by an appointee, then go vacant again until a “special” election can be held.

Barring any future vacancies, normal processes should return in November 2025 when all five member seats are up for election and new two-year terms beginning Jan. 1, 2026. 

On Sept. 17, a pair of resolutions – one brought to the table by the city Mayor and the other by the Commissioner of Accounts – were presented to the City Council to address the seat vacancy of the Commissioner of Public Works. 

Mayor John Safford’s resolution seeks to appoint a person to temporarily fill the vacancy through the end of this calendar year and recommends forming a five-member advisory committee to interview potential candidates for that temporary appointment. 

According to the resolution, each of the four sitting councilmembers (mayor included) would appoint one member to the ad hoc committee, with the mayor designating a fifth person as committee chair. At the end of the interview process, the committee would then make its recommendations to the council.   

Following a robust discussion this week, that measure was tabled to provide ample time for council members to review it with legal counsel. Presumably, the discussion and potential vote on the resolution will be revisited during the next public council meeting on Tuesday, Oct. 1.

Accounts Commissioner Dillon Moran’s resolution requests an election be held “as soon as is practical.” The proposal initially expressed a desire for an election to take place during this calendar year – with the newly elected official seemingly replacing a temporarily appointed one and taking office early in 2025. Due to time constraints however, the resolution language was changed from a 2025 deadline date to “as soon as is practical.”  

Moran’s resolution was unanimously approved by the council, pending approval from legal counsel. What that means is the city will actively seek a “special” date for an election from the Saratoga County Board of Elections to fill the seat from that date through Dec. 31, 2025. 

The council also discussed how it may seek to avoid a once-again vacant seat after a temporary appointment is made, and prior to a “special” election being held. While city rules would seem to indicate that an appointee may only serve in the calendar year of vacancy (in this case: 2024),state Public Officers Law specifically presents a hold-over provision

Saratoga Springs addresses vacancies in an elective office following an incumbent’s resignation in its City Charter (section: 2.4), stating: “the Council shall appoint a person to fill such vacancy until the end of the official year in which said vacancy occurs.” It continues: “If the term of office of the officer vacating the office continues beyond the official year in which said vacancy occurs, a person shall be elected at a special election held after the occurrence of such vacancy to fill such vacancy for the remainder of the unexpired term.” 

New York State Public Officers Law 5:  “Holding over after expiration of term: Every officer except a judicial officer, a notary public, a commissioner of deeds and an officer whose term is fixed by the constitution, having duly entered on the duties of his office, shall, unless the office shall terminate or be abolished, hold over and continue to discharge the duties of his office, after the expiration of the term for which he shall have been chosen, until his successor shall be chosen and qualified; but after the expiration of such term, the office shall be deemed vacant for the purpose of choosing his successor. An officer so holding over for one or more entire terms, shall, for the purpose of choosing his successor, be regarded as having been newly chosen for such terms. An appointment for a term shortened by reason of a predecessor holding over, shall be for the residue of the term only.” 

County Strikes Agreement with Visitor Center in Schuylerville for Saratoga 250 Anniversary Campaign

Written by Thomas Dimopoulos on . Posted in Featured, News.


Champlain Canal Region Gateway Visitors Center in Schuylerville on Sept. 17, 2024. 
Photo by Thomas Dimopoulos. 

BALLSTON SPA— With an eye on establishing a centrally located and easily accessible tourism destination in advance of a major regional upcoming anniversary, the Saratoga County Board of Supervisors on Sept. 17 unanimously approved a cooperative agreement to lease the Champlain Canal Region Gateway Visitors Center in Schuylerville to serve as a gateway for Saratoga’s 250th Anniversary Campaign. 

Referred to historians as the “turning point of the American Revolution,” the campaign marks the 250th anniversary of the 1777 battles at Saratoga, and the subsequent sword surrender (in the village of Victory) and British Troop surrender (in the village of Schuylerville). 

The grounds where those latter two events took place are each located within walking distance of the Visitors Center – which is owned by the Historic Hudson – Hoosic Rivers Partnership, a regional economic development organization.  

The County has been a longtime supporter of the construction and use of the Visitors Center, including a currently outstanding disbursement of $250,000, according to the resolution. 

The property, located at 30 Ferry St. in Schuylerville, consists of approximately 2 acres on the north side of NYS Route 29 East, bordered on the West by Fort Hardy Park. The plot once housed the Town Hall of the Town of Saratoga. That existing structure was demolished.

The County and the Partnership have agreed to fulfill the reimbursement of the $250,000 outstanding disbursement through a cooperative agreement to lease the Visitors Center at a cost of $2,000 per month for five years with an option to renew at a cost of $2,166 per month for an additional five years.

Saratoga PLAN Raises $120K at Ritzy Event, Honors Conservation Heroes

Written by Jonathon Norcross on . Posted in Business, Featured.

The Saratoga PLAN for the Future fundraiser and dinner took place on Thursday, September 12 at the Mansion of Saratoga in Rock City Falls. Photo by Stefanie Waldek. 

ROCK CITY FALLS — Saratoga PLAN, a conservation nonprofit, raised $120,000 at its “PLAN for the Future” dinner at the Mansion of Saratoga last Thursday.

The funds will go directly towards the organization’s ongoing land protection and stewardship efforts, according to Executive Director Robert K. Davies.

Donations were acquired via an in-person paddle raise, as well as a silent auction that included items from the Saratoga National Golf Course, Caffe Lena, and the Saratoga Performing Arts Center.

“We pride ourselves on being a trusted conservation organization in the community, but we couldn’t do it without all of you,” said Peter Olmsted, chair of the Saratoga PLAN board of directors, during the dinner. “We’re really eager to continue our work together and to act now, because once these resources are gone, they’re gone forever.”

The organization also honored its 2024 Conservation Heroes at the event: the Winter family, Ropitzky family, and Ralph Keating.

The Winter family, along with Saratoga County, was celebrated for the establishment of the Graphite Range Community Forest in Wilton. The 200-acre property was slowly assembled by the Winter family over a decade. The forest is now open to the public and includes more than five miles of multi-use trails. The land also supplies the aquifer for the Town of Wilton, making it an especially important resource for protecting water quality. Saratoga PLAN is currently working to expand the forest by an additional 20 acres.

The Ropitzky family helped conserve their historic 221-acre farm in Stillwater, which was facing “intense development pressure,” according to Saratoga PLAN. The farm was first purchased by Peter Ropitzky, a Ukrainian immigrant, in 1926. Today, third-generation farmer Steven Ropitzky grows hay, sweet corn, and pumpkins on the land. 

Ralph Keating was honored for his role as trail steward of the Woodcock Preserve, a 72-acre woodland in Clifton Park. Keating has helped to clear trails, cut back vegetation, implement trail reroutes, and manage structures on the preserve.

In August, Saratoga PLAN held an open house event to share three potential site options for Snake Hill, a 32-acre forested dome on the eastern shore of Saratoga Lake that PLAN acquired from Stewart’s Shops for $1 million. Currently, the organization is reviewing feedback from the event before deciding future uses of the hill. 

At 61, Local Businessman Excels at Spartan Races

Written by Jonathon Norcross on . Posted in Featured, Sports.

Bob West of Saratoga Springs won first place in the 60+ age group at the 2023 Fenway Park Spartan Stadion 5K. Photos provided by West.

SARATOGA SPRINGS — Spartan Races are considered the hardest on the planet, but for one 61-year-old Saratoga Springs businessman, they’re just another exhilarating weekend.

“I’ve never, ever been happier than these last few years since I was racing,” said Bob West, president of Old Saratoga Restorations. “I attribute it directly to the hard work, which is just putting in that daily grind and then putting out as much effort as I possibly can.”

West has participated in more than 100 Spartan Races all over the country, completing 1,851 obstacles at a distance of over 640 miles. In the 60+ age group, he’s won dozens of races, including most recently the Vermont Spartan Sprint 5K on September 15. And despite competing against much younger foes, West has placed as high as 11th overall. As of press time, he was ranked third in the 2024 National Series.

West said he’s long been interested in adrenaline rush-inducing sports. At 14, he started racing motocross. In his 20s, he took up surfing. Later, he gave mountain biking a shot. But he wasn’t especially interested in running until he stumbled upon posts about Spartan Races on Instagram.

“Wow, this is freaking crazy, man,” West thought when he learned about Spartan racers. “Who the hell runs these things? I wonder if I could do that.”

West’s first race was a bit of an accident. He intended to sign up for a 5K that included 20 obstacles, but he instead competed in a 10K with 28 obstacles that are progressively harder as the race goes on.

“It was pretty brutal and I was beat down pretty hard because I failed a bunch of it, but when I finished and I recovered a couple hours later, I was just blown away at how I felt. I felt amazing, like holy shit this was so hard but I got through it,” West said.

West said he was struck by how his fellow Spartan racers celebrated each other’s achievements rather than viciously competing against one another to score a victory. That camaraderie helped reel him in, and he’s been participating in Spartan races ever since.

West said the hardest race he’s competed in thus far is the Vermont Spartan Beast 21K at the Killington Ski Resort, otherwise aptly known as the Killington Beast.

“My first race, I wanted to quit many times and I almost did. I sat down at one point and decided that I was done, I couldn’t finish it,” West said. “I was on my hands and knees crawling up the hill because I was really not prepared for it.”

West stared down the Killington Beast once again on September 14, this time placing second in his age group. It was another difficult task checked off of his to-do list.

“I definitely proved to myself that I’m one of the top three or five guys in the country at racing Spartan,” West said. “I guess my message is that finding something that is hard to do and rewarding at any age is really important. I just think that if there’s no effort in, there’s not much of a reward out.”

Saratoga Girl Makes US Open Appearance

Written by Jonathon Norcross on . Posted in Featured, Sports.


Nayana Shankar from Saratoga Springs helps present trophies to the women’s singles finalists at the US Open Tennis Championships in New York City. Screenshot via the ESPN broadcast.

SARATOGA SPRINGS — Nayana Shankar, a nine-year-old tennis player at the Saratoga Regional YMCA Wilton Branch, made an appearance at the US Open Tennis Championships in Queens last weekend when she helped present the trophies to the women’s singles finalists. 

Following the match between Aryna Sabalenka and Jessica Pegula (a Buffalo native whose parents own the Buffalo Bills), Shankar carried out the trophy awarded to the second-place Pegula. Former tennis player and ESPN analyst Mary Joe Fernández introduced Shankar as a “future American tennis champion.” After Shankar brought the trophy to the podium, tennis legend Billie Jean King appeared to tell her that she did a “good job.” 

Jed Murray, the Saratoga Regional YMCA’s director of tennis, said Shankar was nominated to participate in one of the the United States Tennis Association’s Orange Ball Early Development Camps. While there, Murray said, she showed “exemplary behavior” and earned a chance to present a trophy.

“It was a pretty amazing experience,” Murray said. “She was still pretty shocked that she got to be in that position where the whole stadium is seeing her and they announce her name like that.”

Despite her recent brush with fame, Shankar was back at the YMCA on Tuesday to continue honing her tennis skills.

Community Grieves Sudden Loss of Ballston Spa Athletic Director  

Written by Jonathon Norcross on . Posted in Education, Featured.


Photo of Ballston Spa High School Athletic Director Dave Sunkes receiving the 2018 Wellspring Changemakers Award via Saratoga.com. 

ALLSTON SPA — David M. Sunkes Jr., the Ballston Spa High School Athletic Director, died suddenly last weekend. Sunkes had served the district for more than two decades and was mourned by former students and community members when they learned of his passing.

“This loss has deeply affected our Ballston Spa community, and we are struggling to come to terms with this tragic event,” wrote Superintendent of Schools Gianleo Duca in a letter. “I know that some of you had a close relationship with Dave, and his presence in our schools and at our athletic events will be deeply missed. We are all stunned by the news of this loss.”

“Dave had provided a steady hand in especially the rebound of Scotties Athletics post-Covid shutdowns, and I know without a doubt he had a front-row seat for today’s Ballston Spa Football game at Brewster. He will be greatly missed,” said Ballston Spa Mayor Frank Rossi in a Facebook post.

Superintendent Duca said that the district would be honoring the Sunkes family’s request for privacy, and thus did not immediately provide further information about the unexpected loss.

Sunkes is survived by his wife Carrie and three sons.

Following the announcement of Sunkes’ death, there was an outpouring of affectionate tributes on Facebook. 

“I probably wouldn’t have graduated high school without his help; he was a role model to so many young men and women,” wrote Devin, a former student. “Anyone who ever played for him knew how much he loved us; what a tremendous loss for Ballston Spa.”

“Mr. Sunkes was a true ally to me, and my entire family,” wrote Riley. “He treated me like gold, and never judged me once for who I am. He was kind, compassionate, and fair. He was a wonderful asset to our community, and the world. May he find peace, and his family as well. May they heal in due time, and cherish his loving memory.”

“Our two youngest had Coach Sunkes guiding them in school, the gym class, and in football,” wrote Jeff, a parent of Ballston Spa students. “His motivation driven by humor or timely sarcasm was instrumental in shaping our children. I know this news will devastate many and my heart goes out to his family.”

Sunkes was the recipient of the 2018 Wellspring Changemakers Award. He was credited with bringing the “Coaching Boys Into Men” program to Ballston Spa schools. The program promoted respectful behavior among student-athletes with the goal of preventing abuse, harassment, and sexual assault.

A mass of Christian burial for Sunkes will be celebrated at 9:30 a.m. Friday, September 13 at St. Mary’s Church on Milton Avenue in Ballston Spa. Burial will follow in Ballston Spa Cemetery.

A GoFundMe campaign has been created to help Sunkes’ wife Carrie and his three sons. As of Wednesday afternoon, more than $20,000 had already been raised. To make a contribution, visit http://bspa.news/sunkes.

Rustic Pizza Carries on Family Legacy

Written by Jonathon Norcross on . Posted in Business, Featured.


Rustic Pizza & Eats photo provided by Brian Brumley.

SARATOGA SPRINGS — An award-winning pizza recipe created in the 1950s has been resurrected at Rustic Pizza & Eats, which opened in Saratoga Springs in July.

“As much as I did not want to get back in the restaurant business, I’m doing it for [my mom], for her family,” said Rustic Pizza owner Brian Brumley.

Brumley is the former owner of Spring Street Deli, which he ran for nearly three decades before deciding he wanted to scale back. “I put 28 years of my life into it,” Brumley said. “It was very good to me. I just felt like it was time to sell and move on, create something a little smaller”

Brumley downsized with Olde Saratoga Miniature Golf, which is located right next to Rustic Pizza. The mini golf course famously hosts “Puff Puff Putt” events that allow adults 21 and older to use marijuana while aiming for a hole-in-one. But the call to carry on his family’s legacy compelled him to open up a pizzeria next door.

Brumley’s grandfather opened a restaurant in Amsterdam, New York in the 1940s, then turned the business over to Brumley’s uncle, Tony Centi, in the 50s. Centi created a pizza recipe that was named “Best in the Great Northeast” for multiple years. He sold his famous pies at the Crystal Bar & Restaurant. But in 2013, Crystal closed, and it seemed as if the recipe would be gone forever. 

Brumley said his mom, the last living sibling of his uncle, wished that the recipe would survive. And so Brumley opened Rustic Pizza after securing the recipe from a cousin.

Brumley said his mom is “ecstatic” that new generations will be able to enjoy the Centi family’s creation. “It’s an honor to be asked to carry on the tradition of such a great legacy,” he said. 

Brumley classifies the pies as “bar pizza,” which has a crust akin to Chicago-style in that the sauce and lightly browned cheese go to the edge. Culinary magazine Bon Appétit describes bar pizza as recalling “a pre-gourmet pizza era.”

“[The recipe] really is unbelievable, and I’m not just saying that because it’s my family,” Brumley said.

Rustic Pizza & Eats is located at 556 Maple Avenue in Saratoga Springs, next to Olde Saratoga Miniature Golf.

Gateway House of Peace Marks 10 Yearsof Providing End-Of-Life Care 

Written by Thomas Dimopoulos on . Posted in Featured, News.


Gateway House of Peace celebrates its 10th anniversary this year. Photo via gatewayhouseof peace.org.  

BALLSTON SPA — A decade ago, Gateway House of Peace opened the doors of its two-bed resident home with a dedication to provide a safe, comfortable, caring residence for terminally ill patients in need of a home during their final days. 

For residents, it is a peaceful, healing place where people and their families are provided compassionate and dignified care that supports the natural processes that occur in the final days of life. For those who work at the home, spending time with a person in the final days of their natural lives inspires life lessons of their own to carry onward. 

“It’s not something to be afraid of,” said Kathleen Graham, a volunteer member of the care staff. After becoming caregiver to her husband, who passed away six years ago, Graham says, “I felt like I was called to do this kind of work. And I’ve learned just to love people. Just to be there for them. To help them understand what is going on and to let them know I’m there to help them and love them and be with them.”

To Teresa Kessler, a licensed practical nurse of 20 years, it is a place where healing takes on an expanded definition. 

“For those with experience in working to help heal people, it is a different kind of healing involved,” Kessler says. “When you’re a nurse, the idea of healing means recovery. To get people better. Success is when someone is well, and they go home. With hospice that definition is kind of turned on its head. We aren’t looking any longer at the body recovering, but the healing still happens, and it happens for family members,” she says. 

“This idea of tending to the person – it’s not about the machines, it’s not about the paperwork or rules-and-regulations per se, it’s more about: What does this person need as far as care, and how do we best give that to this person in this particular time in their life?”  

Gateway House of Peace was founded by Joni Hanchett who incorporated the community support home for end-of-life care following her life’s desire to serve those in need, and after dedicating many years of volunteer work in hospice care. The Ballston Spa home was remodeled to offer ample space for families and friends to gather, a fully equipped kitchen for home cooked meals, and bedrooms designed with both privacy and accessibility in mind.

“I think my own formation happened in grade school and high school – I went to Catholic schools that influenced me to seek performing service in the community; to have a vocation not just a job,” Kessler says.  “Those of us who work in hospice have come to an understanding that’s a little outside the mainstream. For myself, I tend towards a Buddhist philosophy – the idea of the acceptance of suffering, and understanding what that is. It very much normalizes the process of what death is. And in the journey to that, being available for people to have a safe place to talk about some of these things that are very difficult should they want to. We get to know them. We get to know their family. It’s a privilege.” 

Gateway House of Peace does not receive any funding from the government or insurance reimbursements, relying solely on the grace of the community through donations, memorials, fundraising, grant writing, bequests and gifts. The organization’s 2024 Butterfly Ball held earlier this year raised more than $70,000 to support the mission of the home.  The organization also stresses that volunteers are the heart of the home, and that anyone interested in seeking volunteer opportunities or other information may do so via their website at: https://www.gatewayhouseofpeace.org/.

“I have a really strong feeling to be able to help people,” Graham said, “to help them pass peacefully and to be there for the families also.”  

“My intention is to provide an environment for someone to be their true self and have an accepting place of whatever it is they need and whatever it is they’re going through,” Kessler says, adding a quote by the late spiritual teacher, psychologist and writer Ram Dass. 

 “One of my favorite quotes by him is: ‘We are all just walking each other home.’ And I think that sums it up quite beautifully,” Kessler explains. “We’re walking with this person, and we’re just walking them home.”